Ofer Mendelevitch (Vectara; author of Hands-On RAG for Production and, with Jay Alammar, Hands-On Large Language Models) interviewed by Angelina on TwoSetAI — 70 minutes on production RAG and surviving the AI shift.
RAG isn’t dead — it just got a loop
- RAG = retrieval + augmented generation, and retrieval stays essential even with agents; the “RAG is dead” claims every two months are mostly people marketing something new
- Classic RAG is one-shot: query → top chunks → prompt → answer. Agents add a loop: the LLM plans, calls tools (often the RAG pipeline itself) repeatedly, and synthesizes
- “Talk to my PDF” demos are not production: millions of documents in every format change the problem completely
The pipeline, from ingest to answer
- Ingest: extract text → chunk → embed → vector store (store the text and page markers too, not just vectors — citations need to point at exact pages)
- Hybrid search (semantic + BM25/TF-IDF) for what semantic search misses: numbers, product codes, exact strings — “if the source says 90% and your output says 85%, vector search won’t catch it”
- Query side: top-5/10 results → optional reranking → prompt → grounded answer
Tables, images, and the red button problem
- Tables are first-class citizens: chunked tables lose their column names (common in medical journals) — store whole tables, retrieve them whole
- Images: store and return as images, don’t flatten to a description
- Video: transcription alone loses meaning — “in order to avoid catastrophe, never press this button” means nothing without the visual. Today’s fix: VLM descriptions of short clips correlated with the transcript. Dedicated video embedding models exist but aren’t production-ready yet
When to bother with knowledge graphs
- Multi-hop questions (“what else did the director of Inception direct?”) defeat semantic search
- But graphs are expensive to build and maintain — worth it only for high-stakes use cases where a significant share of queries actually need the relationships
Eval: the hard part is the data, not the metric
- Retrieval eval (did you fetch the right chunks?) needs query→gold-chunk datasets that are brutal to build — and documents keep changing
- Generation eval compares against curated golden responses
- Reference-free eval (Jimmy Lin’s Waterloo lab + Vectara): LLM-as-judge scorers like UMBRELLA (0–3 chunk relevance) validated against human correlation — no gold labels required
Build, buy, or rent
- Build with LangChain/LlamaIndex only if it’s your business and you have the team; complexity compounds (multimodal, graphs, maintenance)
- RAG/agent-as-a-service (e.g. Vectara) outsources the upkeep; vertical tools are fine when they cover your use case — but watch missing features and data-residency constraints
DevRel as a growth engine
- Two jobs: teach developers how to use the product, and carry feedback back to the company
- PLG over expensive sales teams: self-serve product, events, hackathons, real blog posts — “make it your own voice, don’t produce AI slop”
- Measure directionally, don’t over-engineer attribution: five customers means it’s not working, ten thousand means it is, a thousand is unknowable — same problem founders face reading PMF
The skill that survives
- Engineers and data scientists become directors, not actors: agents write the code; the remaining critical challenge is deciding what to build and steering where agents are weak (architecture, non-obvious trade-offs)
- To the high schoolers who feared they made “the most incredibly stupidest mistake” by majoring in CS: graduate with the capability of today’s mid/senior engineer — use college to learn how to wield the AI tools
- Fundamentals still matter; hiring will have to change — “write Fibonacci in five lines of Python is worthless” — expect AI-augmented interviews
- His real worry is societal, not technical: how governments and finance distribute the gains
“We’re going to end up in engineering and data science being directors as opposed to actors. The coding agents will write the code.”